if you think the fiscal cliff is a problem, this kind of hostage taking around the debt ceiling is multiples of that and the president is, i think, very correct to stand extremely firm and be extremely clear that he's not going to play that game. >> karen, the politics of this are frightening for the republicans. the latest polling does not support their stance. and given that they spent four years obstructing this president and failed, why do it again from the outset of his second term? >> well, you know, there's good news for the republicans, martin. karl rove's group, crossroads gps is going to spend some money for some ads, and we know that's a successful strategy in convincing the american people. >> that's good news. >> i can't pass that chance up to do that. >> i understand. >> i think part of what's so important about the polling, we talked about this on monday and the quinnipiac polling you were showing, the republicans have had time to make their arguments and it's not working. more people are moving towards siding with the president. they believe it's the president and democrats w